My mother-in-law, Herbert’s mother, had …had happy memories of Germany, because she was born in 1900, and wanted to go back to visit. So, the first time that we really went back was when she wanted to go and she was too old to travel alone. And we went with her. You asked me whether I had been to Frankfurt. That was the only time I went to Frankfurt. And, on our way to Bad Orb, which is a spa near there. And it was near enough after the end of the war for there still to be people around, who would have been active during the war. And all these people strutting around the spa town, taking their daily constitutional, it didn’t take much imagination to see them goose-stepping actually. Herbert and I were really quite appalled, and well, felt very uncomfortable there. We had actually been before to Germany. That was the only time we went to Frankfurt. But he had a cousin, who lived in Germany, in Berlin, in East Berlin. And… they couldn’t come to England, she and her family. So, we went to visit them. And… we crossed over, went to the West and crossed over at Friedrichstraße or Checkpoint Charlie or one of those. And stayed with them for the day and then came back to West Berlin at night. And… we very much enjoyed being with them. But not with all the people that one sits next to in the train at that time. You just didn’t know who it was. Well, that carried on like that, until about 1994. And at that point, Herbert had reached retirement age, and was doing voluntary work with Anne Frank Exhibition; he was the principal guide for them. The Anne Frank Exhibition took a volunteer from Aktion Sühnezeichen Friedensdienste – Action Reconciliation Services for Peace – a very cumbersome name, but a very wonderful organisation that had young volunteers at that time avoiding military service. They didn’t want to do conscription, but they had to do some kind of voluntary service of some kind. And they joined this organisation and were sent to countries that had formerly been affected by the Nazi era. That included Israel, even though Israel hadn’t existed at the time. This ASF, this group of young people, they had a volunteer always at the Anne Frank Exhibition. And from 1994 onwards, Herbert met these youngsters, and he brought some of them home. And… we made friends with them, and told ourselves that we were being silly about Germans today. What- These people in 1994 were aged twenty. What responsibility did they have? Even their parents, were kids, at the time. Just don’t ask about the grandparents. …And we made friends with them, and gradually we acquired a whole host of nice young people some of whom are still friends today. And I really feel that through this organisation, through ASF, they – they have given me a clearer sense of how to be with German people, and have released me from a lot of problems that I had with anything to do with Germany. And my relations are much more normal now. I can- I’ve been on holiday in Germany. Herbert and I went on a cruise down the Rhine, which was very nice. And… it’s just a regular, normal relationship now.